A Conversation About How to Be a Healthy Couple and Caregivers

In this episode Tiffany interviews her sister and brother in law, Courtney and Brad Donaldson who shares very real and authentic insights about being caregivers and maintaining a healthy marriage.  

In this episode, the Caregiving Couple shares about their experience taking care of Tiffany and Courtney's dad, the stresses that come with it, and solid advice for couples who find themselves in the role of Caregiver.

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In addition to thanking our wonderful guests, Courtney and Brad for being on this episode we also would take to thank DeAndre Sweat and Eugenius Productions for recording this episode for us.  It looks amazing and sounds amazing, and we are grateful to you! 

Transcript

[Music]
Welcome back to Living Through the Shift Podcast. I'm your host Tiffany J. Harris and I'm so happy you're here.
Welcome to the podcast where we say you're not crazy, you're just going through a lot of shift.
This episode is really special to me and every episode is generally special, but this one is really special because I bought my sister and my brother-in-law on here to discuss caregiving.
Both of us are caring for our parents. I am taking care of my mom and my sister is taking care of my dad and they have navigated marriage and caregiving and trying to make a marriage work.
I think this is something that a lot of people don't see, so I really think you all will enjoy this episode.
We just want to give us special thanks and I hope that this helps a lot of people.
Let me preface this. This is not to disparage our parents or anything like that. It's just really to show a true glimpse of what caring for two people are like and they'll talk about my dad's disabilities.
As you know, my mom has dementia, so I'm really excited. Welcome to the podcast, you guys.
Thanks for having us. Thank you.
This is Dr. Courtney Harris. Oh my gosh. She's a psychologist. I bought them one because they both have health care experience also, which is great because Brad is a paramedic.
Can you all talk about that and introduce yourselves?
I am Courtney Harris, Donaldson, so I'm a psychologist and a federal officer. I've moved from Chicago to Mississippi in '09 and I started working with the Bureau in 2016 at SEC Altersoo City and then I've transferred to SCI Memphis in 2019.
Yeah, that's where I'm at.
Okay, in Brad.
My name is Brad. I am originally from Laurel, Mississippi.
Hello, Laurel.
I moved to Jackson. This is seeping when I turned 18 with the college. I did a couple of jobs while I was there.
Then, with me, Courtney got married, stayed in the regional for a little while.
And then we moved to Memphis and I was driving trucks for a little while.
And then I started volunteering at a fire department, kind of fell in love with the medical field.
So I went and got my EMT and now I'm in paramedic school. I'll be done in two months with paramedics.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
So you all have a lot of experience. So tell me a little bit about your love story.
Right before caregiving started. Just give me a little glimpse.
So I think this was like my third year in grad school.
I started working at JC Pennymore as we call it this job today.
Like Target, Tarjet. And so I worked in the home department. Brad was in .com at that time.
I had been there about a year and I was sort of sick of just dating and stuff.
And so one of the girls in my program, she had told me about this sermon.
It was called the New Rules for Sex Love and Dating and it said that if you have stayed for a year,
then the person who you were supposed to mirror would present themselves.
And so Brad popped up about 10 months into that.
And he told me that he liked me as I was quitting. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we can't date.
But I was like, but we can hang out.
And I guess I was trying to like make sure that I hit the 12 months and then I was like, oh shit.
Like it's burnt. Like it has to be bread.
And so Brad says that I, what do you say? I dumped you.
I turned you down, but we hung out like every night.
Who hangs out every night? Who exchanges keys with each other?
Who says that they love you, but they ain't dating. That was us.
And after five years we got married.
Yeah, what about you, Brad?
What about you? Tell me your love story.
Oh, pretty much the same. She swear she didn't kick me to the curb, but she did.
But she always says that like we were in church one Sunday.
And it was just, we would say, my children in church.
And so me, I just kind of like put my arm around and you know, not thinking none of it just did it.
And she said that when I did that, she felt something like, okay, she like she knew like, okay, this is the relationship.
I experienced butterflies. I couldn't even focus on the sermon.
I was like, why is he putting this arm around me like, oh my god, like what is he doing?
Yeah, that's when I basically knew like, I really was filling him.
Yeah. And I was just trying to stretch.
What is the romantic? It's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, I, so we've been together this year.
It will be married nine years. And together 14.
No, nine plus five. Yeah, 14.
Yeah, okay. That's a very long time.
So of course, you all are dating and both of our parents have, they're a little wacky.
So Courtney, I'm sure you told Brad about our parents.
Can you give me like a little bit of that? What you told them about her?
I don't, I mean, I think I told them I was pretty cool with dad.
And I mean, I think around that time, like me and dad, whenever we talked on the phone,
I mean, we would have conversations here and there. We were cool.
We would like, you know, I'll talk about how like we would dance and stuff together.
But I think Brad knew like I had a, I definitely had a better relationship with, um, dad or a, or a, a big mic.
And then when it came to Jackie or mom, I think I really, I had a break.
I recall like I could see it so vividly like I was in your, um, we were at your apartment because he hate.
So he hated being at my apartment because I did not have cable.
And so that was a big thing for him. So he would, you know, he will come over to my place one night.
And then the next day we will immediately have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to, you know, we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
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And then we would have to retreat to his place.
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And then we would have to retreat to his place.
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And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
And then we would have to retreat to his place.
Yeah.
What were you going to say?
I was guys, yeah, I do recall that day because he grabbed the phone
and he was like, you're not going to listen to that anymore.
And you put your foot down too.
What is it?
When we went to Chicago, your recall, when we went to the aquarium.
So it was something that...
No, it wasn't the aquarium.
It was a planetarium.
And it was some type of like...
After...
Like it was an evening event or something like that.
And she thought that it was like...
Free to the public.
But when we got there, we realized it wasn't.
And so she...
How she started flipping out and I was just like, oh shit, I'm going to have to pay for this.
We have to do that.
And Brable was like, you could pay for this today.
But he was like, you aren't going to do this anymore.
And I was like, okay, I like that.
Because I mean, that's just how we always had to roll.
But we've had conversations about this throughout the years.
But he said that there are only a couple of people that truly know how Jackie is.
Because she was so great at putting on a facade.
Right.
Like yeah.
Yeah. And it's like, now she's nice.
So I know that is very hard for the both of us.
Yeah.
A jacker.
It's weird.
Because we were about to find out a diagnosis.
And clinically you were excited about that.
Because we were...
We kind of felt like she is on the spectrum of like bipolar or something of nature and some type of personality disorder.
And we didn't get that.
And then we kind of felt like...
It wasn't of any vindication.
No.
So everybody...
I mean, dad's side of the family has been saying that for years.
Yeah.
So I mean, whatever at the end of the day is sort of like over with.
But we have somebody go ahead and quote like a...
And another psychologist co-signed it.
But then that psychologist ended up going out from Vanderbilt and somebody else took over her case.
So it is what it is.
But you know...
Yeah.
And then I know that we kind of had this...
I know I was younger.
Me and my sister were a little over six years apart.
And I remember vividly being a grand funeral.
And I remember you saying, you know, telling...
Kind of telling mom like to get it together but also...
Right.
And we kind of just had this weird, quick agreement of like...
You're gonna get mom and I'm gonna get dad.
And I kind of felt like, okay, sure.
But I'll probably be, you know, married and have kids and all that stuff.
And that was...
That was not the case.
And then I think for you all, what, grand past in December 2017.
And then when did you all take that?
2018.
June 2018.
July.
And then we ended up...
Right.
We went on the trip.
Okay.
So dad, I always say he broke like the left side and the right side of his body on TV occasions.
He did.
Because he was a year of March.
Yeah.
And we were on a trip.
And it was like...
We were having fun.
We were having drinks, you know.
Like, I'm a third wheel, snoring.
But whatever it's fine.
And then you all get this call.
What's this call about?
Something happened going on with Dad.
Okay.
And then he got back up.
So he broke one side one year.
He broke the other side the next year.
And then I think he got out.
He got out the hospital and he went to his friend's house.
Quote, unquote.
What did they use to call up the drug?
The cigarette store.
Yeah, the cigarette store.
I paid the drug house.
So he went there.
And they had to carry him up the stairs.
And Jackie was supposed to go pick him up to take him to the bank.
And somehow it happened.
He fell into a wall and he broke his shoulder.
Okay.
That's what...
Yeah.
He ended up breaking his shoulder.
Something like that.
So he ended up going to the hospital.
The hospital never did any surgery.
So, you know, it was just few together.
And then I think they went ahead and sent him to some type of like rehab.
Or something like that.
It was like we went there.
I mean, he went there and they were basically saying like he was about to get released.
So we drove from Canton to Myrtle Beach.
Got the call.
We said, okay, we'll go ahead.
We still have time for the car.
We'll go ahead and come back home.
And sleep.
Switch our clothes.
Drive up to Chicago.
Go pick him up and bring him right back.
Right?
And so that was what the plan was.
And then when we got there, they had packed...
Like we didn't even have a chance to meet with like the nursing staff.
But basically they begged up all his stuff.
And it was just like a good look.
God bless.
Like here's his stuff.
Like take his...
Take the medication.
Take the...
Whatever.
Take everything that he has taken and go.
And I think that like...
Then seeing him it was like, oh, okay.
It's because like you're...
You have a really, you know, aggressive attitude.
You're very irritable.
Like I get it.
And he also had, you know, very crappy insurance too.
And probably he was in pain.
So he really didn't want to, you know, do like he really didn't want to do the physical therapy.
I can understand it.
So it was a myriad of things.
It definitely shine like, oh, okay.
This is way worse than so when I was talking to him.
He was saying like, oh, I can't go to the bathroom.
And I didn't think like, I'm just thinking like, oh, like his leg is messed up or something.
Whatever, I didn't know.
But he couldn't get up and go to the bathroom.
When we got him to Jackie's house, got him in a car.
Because we had to...
She called the police...
No, she called the fire department to help bring him up the stairs.
When we were giving him a shower, he had like a fourth degree wound on his butt.
And...
I had to like, we were all trying to like clean it.
And I think we were all just walking through the house trying to like figure out like,
what were we going to do essentially?
Because I remember even at the facility when we picked him up, like he couldn't even get out the wheelchair to get in the car.
Like, I think I pretty much kind of had to like bare hug him and turn him and put him in the car because his legs were so weak.
And then I remember, I remember when you were giving him a shower, you had to stand in the shower with him.
Did I?
Yes, because he couldn't hold himself up in the shower.
Oh, I remember.
And I remember it was downstairs during the bathroom.
Yeah.
They just had to shower.
He couldn't even lift his leg over that little lip at the bottom just to get into the shower.
That really wasn't exactly interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was pretty much like they...
I remember her calling.
And they was like, yeah, he's good to go.
She was asking like, is he walking better than everything?
And then they were like, yeah, he's good.
He can walk into everything.
And then we get there and he's already in the wheelchair.
And so by the time we realize, oh, he can't do none, he's already picking him up, trying to put him in the car.
And so, yeah, and then it's pretty much went down here from there.
Every time we had to try to get him in the house, out of the house, we had to call the fire department to lift him up and down the steps.
And then we got ready to bring him down a lot.
We had to run some airs around Chicago.
Well, bring him back to Ken.
We had to run some airs around Chicago.
I think the one I remember they just kind of pissed me off was, uh, Quentin had taken to the bank to get...
Hey, did his money taken out of the account or...
Get it.
Uh, I wish he could transfer it to a different account or something.
And so...
'Cause we were still determined to go ahead and get him down to Mississippi.
It was just like as long as we get him in the car, cool.
Everything will be fine, but...
Yeah, and so...
They went to the bank together and so I set out in the car.
And so, he needed like a shower stool or something.
And it was a wall green right across the street, so she takes me...
She said she was gonna go to wall green and get that if I would stand in the bank with him.
And so, we got out one to the bank.
And so, we're standing in the bank, the...
Right, sir.
Doing, you know, getting everything and so your dad was sitting in the wheelchair and I was standing right behind him.
And so, he took his wallet out and, um, went into his wallet and put it out of Baggy.
Oh, shit.
And he opened up a baggy, opened it up, and then in my office he had dead drugs in the bank.
And so, I told Courtney, I said, "Courtney, I said "Courtney, you get back over here because your dad is doing drugs right here in the bank."
Yeah.
Like he took it...
I forgot.
Yeah, he took the bag and just put it in his mouth, chewed on it right there in the bank.
And it was an officer in there.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
When she came back...
Geez.
I walked out because I was pissed.
Right.
But I think we had found drugs in his wallet before that when we were...
When we had brought him into the house, you remember how I was doing the shower?
You had went through his stuff.
It's supposedly, I think, what it was, was when he was at the therapy when his friends was coming up there...
Okay.
...and supposing in him and they brought it.
And we found, like, I think after that we went through his wallet, found more baggies in his wallet.
So what happened with the officer?
He didn't notice.
I don't think he saw it, but Courtney came back.
I walked out because I was pissed.
I was flying off the handle.
And I remember them walking out the bank and Courtney just going off.
And I think eventually he popped it out.
I think he was telling her he didn't do anything.
And when they walked out the bank, he, like, spitted out.
Right.
And so I told, like, once we got to the car, it was like, he ain't...
He's not coming down here with us because he got...
So most of the time he got to take care of...
Right.
...when that happened, we had to have, like, the little intervention with your aunt and your mom.
And so we had to try to find a facility that was taken because most rehab facilities,
as far as, like, when it comes to drugs or anything,
well, you have to be able...
Most people are able to take care of themselves.
Okay.
And that case, the day, wasn't able to take care of themselves because he couldn't even walk.
And so we finally ended up finding, like, a hospital that was like an hour outside the city
that accepted him because of the wound he had.
And I think they had, like, a detox center or something connected to the facility.
Right.
And so he stayed there for, like, a couple of months, I think, a couple of weeks.
No, it was a couple of weeks, but initially, because it was, like, fourth of July,
or something, it happened to him in fourth of July, because I was just saying,
I think we had got there earlier, nothing else.
And I was like, oh, I just want to get downtown to go see the fireworks.
And I think by, like, 10 o'clock, I was like, that's not going to happen
because he was still in the hallway of the hospital.
And so somebody had to, like, a social worker, or something had to come down.
And initially, they didn't want to accept him because of the wound.
They would accept him because he couldn't walk, but it was because of that fourth of a very wound.
So somehow, they ended up putting him on the different wing
and then eventually took him to a different hospital.
So we just, like, left him there.
And it might have been, like, a few weeks later that we had, because initially we had,
initially, Brad and I, we had said, okay, dad is going to come stay with us, fine.
And then when that happened, we sort of just, like, let it go.
And then I remember, now I'm back at work.
And I'm talking with their, with his, like, the nursing staff, or maybe a social worker, or something.
And so I'm telling him, like, he has to at least be able to lift his calf up to go over.
I think it was like, it hasn't been the size of your calf.
It was a deep tub and a deep stand-in shower.
But speaking today at dad said, I'm not coming down there with y'all, but talking to them,
they're like, he's coming with you.
And I'm like, okay, but he's saying he's not coming, so it's just like, we're going to let it go.
And it might have been like a nut, like, that next week, they called.
And so they were like, hey, we want to talk about his discharge.
And I want to say that was, like, on a Monday, or Tuesday, or something like that.
That Wednesday, they called and they say, hey, his insurance is running out and they're going to kick him out on Friday.
So what are you going to do?
So he still was stuck on how he's not coming down there and some, or coming down to Mississippi.
And somehow he ended up changing his mind or whatever within this.
I want to say it might have been a couple of hours because I know we had to buy him a ticket.
And so then we drove up to Memphis from Canton to go pick him up.
And then he was with us ever since.
So he was able to shuffle around at that time, move more on his walker.
They were able to go ahead and come in and take care of his medication and get the wound,
take, or healed and all that other stuff.
So Brad, now you're married to this woman.
You kind of know that this, all this stuff, this is where worse comes before, better for work.
You know, like it's for better or worse.
And now the worst is come, like you haven't even hit two years into your marriage because you're still like newlywed, right?
Right. Right.
So what is going through your mind?
Like just give me a brief synopsis of that.
So we had talked about it, but it was like a conversation like, like it had never happened.
Like in my mind, I was thinking, but it came and happened.
It was kind of like, okay, well, it's just, I'm in deal with it.
And it was a lot because I would get out, I would work at nights.
And so I worked 12, I was shifting.
So when I get off in the morning, she would be head to work.
And I had to get up, I had to get home, take them straight to therapy for like an hour for physical therapy in Canton.
And then take them back home and then I was sleep.
And then that was like three days a week.
I would take them to like therapy.
It was like he couldn't do anything for himself almost.
And so it was like every little thing like you have to do for them.
And then you have to wake up at 12 o'clock to give them his lunch because he couldn't really get around and get to the microwave at that point.
Yeah, at that point, he was still like, what and really getting around like as good as he can now.
So I had to get up and get his lunch.
And then you would come in and you know, you take care of the rest of it.
And then I was stressful, it was annoying because it's like you in your old place, you want to kind of have like.
Re-comfortable. Re-comfortable, relaxed.
And just you know, enjoy your apartment.
But it was like you couldn't really just ever get comfortable because somebody else was in there.
What was that like for you off financially? Was that a financial hit?
So he had a little money coming in.
And I think, I mean, he didn't have much to take care of.
So he did have he had a lot of backbeams like old debts.
And so the biggest thing I was like, okay, well, we'll take care. I'll trip that off as you know time goes along.
But let's focus on the main thing like your medication.
He did I have the body mattress or he took, he kept a mattress.
I recall about, I think we bought a new mattress.
I think the financial side court and court in the man she was like, this is my dad.
Right.
For us finances. So I didn't really see much financial issues with it, but I know he did have some money coming in and cut in.
That would help you know, like got him some clothes.
His like groceries for them. She said a budget for his groceries of like what?
I don't think I got the dollars or something.
Well, it's grocery.
So,
But that helped.
Because he wanted, he wanted like all this money.
I don't understand like he wanted all this much not saying like he shouldn't be saved, but I'm like, dude, you're old like what would you need all this money for?
And so he wanted, he wanted money to be saved.
And he, I know he was really upset that I don't like, I left a lot of his clothes in Chicago, but I'm like, what can I do?
Like they have bear bugs like I'm not taking this stuff with us.
He's upset that he doesn't have what he used to, but you're not living in squalor.
You're not living how you used to be.
So you all think we should take his new life.
And you all have given him a really good life.
So now you're, you're back, your home, you figured all that stuff out.
Now you can take like a break.
No.
Let's talk about your marriage and that was like a hit.
Like it's like two months of just pure chaos.
How do you, what like, I don't know, were you all like trying to like getting a shelter in the sheets where you're like, oh, we're so stressed out.
How do we like, nope?
No, well, first off, I don't even think so, you know, we were on opposite schedule.
One, two, I was already uncomfortable coming home because dad will be in the living room watching TV just cackling it up in his wheelchair.
Brad will be in the in the bedroom.
So it, so we moved from Regulant to Canton out into the country.
So it was like a cheaper apartment, but it was like upgrade. It was really nice. Like loved it.
But then I hate it being at the apartment. So I tried to, so I would say it worked until like 10, 11 o'clock at night because I didn't want to be around that.
But then that meant that I wouldn't see him.
That was one factor.
Two, we felt, I know I felt so uncomfortable trying to have sex.
So I mean, we shared a wall.
So I hear him farting.
I'm pretty sure you go here.
And then they had his rocking. So no, it like I don't think it really happened like that.
And then I don't know if it was like, I don't know when the, when the switch or car, but it was like, we're gonna have sex.
Like, and if he hears like, it's okay.
And I mean, a couple of times like quiet sex. I mean, oh, okay, a little sexy.
But then after I was like, no, if I wanted to let something out, like I'm a less, I'm like, he knows how, how you gotta like make, you know kids or you know,
just what adults do like, come on now.
So, so that, yeah, Brad, go ahead.
Yeah, it was, it was annoying to me like very annoying.
Like I didn't want to, because I would be like, it would be days like when I would bring him back from therapy,
I would just go sit in my car just to have some time to myself.
And I still do that now, like, even now, like I sit in my car for like a few minutes before I even go in the house to, you know, just do whatever I just sit in the car.
But it's filling on my phone, looking at a video, some of my phone just sometimes to myself.
But, yeah, it was, because it seemed like every time we would try to have sex, it never felt like he would get up and you would hear his walk or just creeping down.
And then every time, like, every time, it was, every time.
It's just like, he just, it's like, he knew what would like to happen.
And he would just hear it and it was just like, and it was just like, bring you down.
Bring him a guess.
So how does, how did that into, like, how is your intimacy, intimacy changed now?
And then to like, I'm not think like she said is like now, it's just like, it's just going to the point where like, you know, we're married.
You're in our space.
So, we're going to do it.
And sometimes I go into his room and like, turn up the TV and they really like, oh my god.
Like, yeah, oh my god.
Like, but I mean, trade off.
Okay, I used to have to go ahead and set up his porn.
So I mean, what do you,
Yeah, right.
What do you say?
Yeah, I was watching.
Yeah, that was watching porn.
And then you have to order it.
People are saying, well, you were ordered off the expended to your account.
Or you have a channel.
Yeah.
And he would give me like $20 when he, when he bought a video, he'd give me $20 to put on the bill for it.
Okay.
So I know he got like, I think I think that was like this ain't shit.
Like I can't see shit on this.
So let's switch to a different channel.
And I think after like the third switch, he was like, I'm not doing this no more.
So then I think that's where he started like ordering videos and then, yeah.
And he is legally blind.
He has lost his vision over time.
So that so and I get it like he's saying, you know, I've taken away everything like I've taken away drugs like I've taken away women.
And being an interact with people because of stuff that he said sometimes is out of pocket.
Like you can't say that to people like before you may have been able to say that in the 80s.
And it's okay.
But now this is.
It's a little different.
2020 something like you can't just, you know, you might get hit with some sexual assault charges, even though you are older man.
Like you just never know, but we're going to enjoy our marriage.
Yeah.
We were talking a couple of weeks ago and you said me and Brad are going to live.
What does that mean for both of you?
I would say just enjoy our lives as a married couple because when he came in, it was, it was very rough.
It was our relationship went down here because I was out.
And I can say for myself, like I was very annoyed and like even when I heard like even if she didn't do anything,
it was just like just because he was there.
I was annoyed and I would take it out on her.
And I think she would be annoyed also because she was there.
And I remember like on Sundays that was her day to do everything for him like to prep for the week.
Yeah.
And I would just like, I already knew like on Sundays, I just give her her space.
Because I know she was like having to do his meals for the week.
Get his clothes ready.
And it was just like instead of a day of rest, it was a day of work.
Another workday for her and she would just be on the way.
So that was like, I just knew like, let me just give her a space.
So she can do what she got to do.
But yeah, it took a toll.
But now I think we just kind of realized they like, hey, we got to, we got to live for ourselves.
We got to enjoy marriage.
We got to live life and being going to therapy to talk stuff out.
We have an issue, which is helped.
What's your marriage motto for each of you?
I think we're like, yeah, we're going to live.
Like we have to, we can just let this go ahead and break us down.
Like, so I think that's really important for us.
Like, okay, so this is Brandsburg Day week.
So like, we're going to live.
So I've had to go ahead and do all these things to prepare to allow dad to go ahead and stay at the house.
So it's not to say like we're leaving him alone.
Like, if I was working throughout the day, he would be at the house by himself.
But everything is set up so he can still go ahead and get around by himself.
So like this time, I had to go ahead and like prepare all of his food and so everything is stacked up on the,
the, like on the first shelf of the refrigerator.
So, yeah, I mean, whenever we go, like, if we ever take a trip or something like that,
I think we, we have to stack emergency, not emergency services, but stack people, stack support just in case something happens.
I leave all his cards on the, the bar should anybody have to come by.
I leave, I give somebody like a key to go ahead and come into the house.
But we're going to go ahead and enjoy ourselves.
Like, I'm just not going to stay in the house and not do anything because he's there.
Yes, true. It's very stressful on me because like, you know, like, I'm always taught us, you know, we got to go, I don't want to, you know, come back to a dirty house.
So cleaning, packing, like getting him together, it's like having a kid.
So it's just a lot, but then it's a, I guess, a say positive to go ahead and just like have a long time.
I mean, not, I guess it's a positive that, you know, we can go ahead and be together, but it takes a lot to go ahead and plan.
Yeah, like being intentional behind.
So, Brad, you say like it got really hard. Did you ever feel like, yeah, I love this girl, but yeah, no.
Did you ever feel like you wanted to get a divorce or like, yeah, I never thought about getting a divorce.
I just thought about maybe just, maybe I just need some time to myself because it was just like, it was a lot.
Like, it was, it was very, and according to say this, I'm a very real chill, like, back person, quiet.
I keep to myself, but I could see myself changing into like a very angry person when he came in.
And I felt like those part of reason why I got to just sit in my car just so I can try to be in a better mood.
I wouldn't show it, but I never thought about divorce, maybe just like, maybe I just need to take some days to myself.
And I think sometimes that's when like, I would go home to my parents house, just to kind of get away from it and get like a reset.
And so I can come back and be like in a better state of mind.
No, that's really important.
So, you figured out a way to make time for each other, but then also you are like really young.
And the question always comes up like, you're married.
Now you have dad, but before that was probably like kiddos.
And I know that's really hard.
Like, does it bother you when people ask you about children?
I know it used to bother her all the time.
I think it used to bother her when she would be out with her dad and people would be like,
oh, you're going to get a blessing for doing this.
Oh my god.
And I would just remember saying, where is it?
When is it coming?
Like, I just remember it like, because she was so stressed out with them.
But yeah, like, I know what her when people brought up the kids thing, I don't think it's as bad now.
But before, it used to be like, it'll pinch a nerve for her.
I mean, I think, so I feel like marriage changed like a lot of things for me when it came to having children.
And so I feel like, I mean, I feel like people always like expect it.
You know, you should just go ahead and have kids, but everybody don't have to necessarily have kids.
And I don't know if that's me like from living up north and having that mindset.
Like, you just respect people boundaries like if they say they don't want to talk bad.
All right, we're just going to leave it alone, but it just seems like it's just something that's just nudged and nudged and nudged.
It's been a touchy topic, like multiple, multiple times, where it's just like, I'm just like, I'm not fucking understanding it.
Why people won't stop talking about like, I understand like, you may want, you know, your family may want grandkids or your parents may want grandkids, but that ain't me.
Or that, or that may not be us or the end, that's another thing like they may not they don't need to know the inner workings between us of like, why we do or do not want children like is is none of your business.
But yeah, like caretaken for me, I definitely say, like, oh, I have a 70 year old child.
That's a job.
Yes.
Because it is because he thinks like he's a teenager and so it's like arguing with him and then sometimes I go ahead and you know mess with him, especially about like, be a time.
But I will say like I've calmed about the, the children, the topic of children.
So like, I know your brother mentioned something recently.
Our, our, our daughter slash ninks birthday party, but I sort of just like let it go in one ear out the other, but I mean normally I probably would have like got on defense on guard like ready to go ahead and say something or definitely would have told Brad like you need to say something because it's just like it's not cool.
Like, did you all and thank you for sharing that I do appreciate it.
My question I think also is, did you all have any support to talk to because you like went through a lot through those first like several years of like getting in and now he's he's like really adjusted.
He has a really good life.
We've gone on trips together.
I think you end up getting a therapist and you end up getting a therapist.
And I think eventually me and her went to her therapist a couple of times as a couple.
I didn't care for because it seemed like they already had a relationship in a report.
So it just seemed like when we went therapy, you was just them having a conversation. I was just there listening.
So I didn't really care for anybody.
Did your peers know what you were going through?
I have a small circle of friends and my circle they knew and they were so they are I mean they still are supportive.
Like we talk about it. They understand we check on we check in on each other and even if it's like you know we don't get a chance to talk.
But like you know we'll talk today and then it might be like another month and a half and we chat.
It's like we pick up like we never like you like the conversation never ended and we're you know we're still rolling on one.
But I know one friend I can think her Kim she always says like what do you have so much on your plate.
But it was like I mean but when she knew me back in.
Well when we first met that's been like 2010 2011 like it was a lot going on between you day and Jackie.
And so that's just been my running story like I have a lot of my plate as I was like going on but they've always been very supportive like nobody has shut me out.
And then sometimes I think that's why I went in turn to a therapist because I did not want to I felt like I was draining on my friends like I'm talking about the same thing and then it was like okay now we need to go ahead and.
Work on changing this because I don't want that to just be like my same narrative so I want to talk about other things too like I said I don't want to keep you know draining on everybody so have have a neutral ear and then.
Change different things like start working on things to make it less stressful so now that has services so it's still like a work in progress like we're getting adjusted to his new caregiver.
But I mean it is a it is a help I mean that's five hours I mean four hours a day for five days a week so that she could come in and cook and you know do his laundry and help him with a shower and help him get on the trip meal stuff that I mean I would normally do I would be running around circles.
That I don't want to do right now I have time back for me yeah and and you need that because it's exhausting what about you Brad did you have any sport.
Yeah my.
I can't about the same like I have a small preference that new the situation so if I need to talk off I had a needed a vent and session or anything I could talk to them about.
These crazy fiasco's of them him sitting the microwave while breaking the tall and then falling the back on with.
It's just need an event I could have friends that I can talk to but like professionally in the beginning know it was just like friends that I'll talk to.
So I know that we are doing caregiving have you done any pre funeral arrangements for dad or like for your parents Brad.
I have not done any with my parents I have not even had a conversation with them.
It's actually like like I don't think I really lost a lot of like my grandmother's the only person that I've really lost is close lately you since we've been together.
That's like the only person that I've lost is like immediate family so I haven't had that conversation don't know how.
It'll be a tough conversation to have but I have not had it yet know what about you.
I know like I'm doing mom stuff have you done like pre funeral or he away for dad or dad has up I mean I'm his power of retiring.
We did complete that paperwork and the banker signed on the right line.
Oh my god.
Oh, that's not fair.
Yeah, that's how I got a conservatorship because he didn't do it right.
So but we did that and then I've spoken to him I mean not in depth but what he basically said like all want this music to be played at my funeral.
That's like that's really it.
I'm aware that he wants to be buried in Chicago.
I know he's told me don't burn him up don't create him but I mean I feel like cost effectiveness if that's what it comes down to.
I mean we could have an open casket and then you know cremation afterwards.
Then what I want him to be there I don't know so but then I yeah but then I also know when grand had passed away I think it was like $5,000 just for them to open and close the ground.
Yeah, I mean he does have life insurance we you know I do take care of his finances so I'm aware of that.
I don't know how much will 25,000 stretch but well you know I guess we'll say when it comes to that point but I'm aware of those things like but nothing like nothing to to end up I mean are you asking like have I figured out who's going to be Paul bearers and stuff.
No I mean just like it could be that it could be I mean I don't think we really need to know that part but like no I mean I think we probably I mean I probably should start working.
His like you know the problem like what would be said on the inside because you know dad has worked we were joking about that the other day how he's has so many different jobs and how he's worked at Mr. Laties and I don't even know if that's a real place but how he used to you know shampoo hair and you know be a DJ and
because the oldie is like he's worked at I mean he's he's worked everywhere but yeah and it's like I don't and I guess yeah like Eulogy because I've been trying to figure out jackies and I haven't yet and that's such when you got go there but um brad you said this is a really hard conversation so you've seen what you've done with your wife.
What has that has that made you want to talk to your parents about it or like how to even initiate that conversation.
Yeah because I honestly don't know anything I would say like my parents are in like I guess like a different position like health was.
But also like so they may already have it in together and I don't even know what they just I'm not sure I just never had the conversation with them but I mean I it has made me think about actually just bringing it up like you know like how would you want I mean of course I know where where would be in probably where they want to be buried but so I said that's about all I know.
Yeah I mean his mother did mention to me something about like the division of assets I kind of remember how we got on that conversation but that was like the most that we went into that but I'm sort of like not touching that with a tempo call because I feel like they're a boundaries with it and that's a very touchy subject and that's your family and I'm not doing I'm gonna let you handle it.
Do you so you know obviously people are age are listening millennials and Xers they're listening and parents might be listening what advice would you give to them if they're listening to this conversation what would you tell them to do if they have kids your age and they're still okay but you know they're going through retirement what would you want them to do today.
I hope they start working on start doing the front end of that start making those not necessarily making the preparations but having everything like laid out because I know with Jackie it was so hard like whenever we were trying to speak to her about it she would always be like fuck out my business and it's like we're not trying to be in your business but we sort of need to and then we end up having to be in your business and so.
Yeah it was a bad it was a bad situation like I mean I could see like going back to like when grand at grand funeral I could see how things were just like looking at her house and it it already looked like it was blown up with like papers everywhere and that was something that we don't and I like it someone listen I don't think that you will want your children to be going through to try and like figure out where is this paper working where is this and where is that you know.
All of that and I cried going when we went back I cried for at least an hour because I couldn't believe like saying like we're going to have to step in and take care of this and now we're you know we're here but it was just it was just a lot to go ahead and go through.
It was a lot to go through like when you had brought me up to Chicago during COVID to go help her and you know I was trying to like look at her place and.
I was already like trying to figure out like where do we even start it was just a lot and I don't feel like that should be on the child at all and the other thing is I don't think that.
Like older parents I don't feel like they need to necessarily expect that their child needs to go ahead and take care of them if we ever became parents I would not want my child to go ahead and take care of me I would feel like that selfish because.
You've had your life and I know that's the perspective that we have have with that like he lived his life he did his you know he was a substance user for like 50 years he did all his stuff and now it's like we feel like we're paying for it like we're having to go ahead and like.
We're just having to pay for it that's just what it is that's just the heart of it.
I wouldn't want them to have to experience that I wouldn't mind being in the home or being in my own own place but again of course who knows how that will be like later down the line should that ever occur but I would also want to have all my stuff have all my business in order like I don't want somebody else to have to try to figure out all that stuff for me like.
They didn't make the mess ideas so I need to go ahead and have all that laid out yeah well you Brent yeah I agree with you said I think like have a game plan just for me from a work point of view I see all the time like you know parents doing fine and then next thing you know they on the ground having a stroke and.
They can't move one side of the body so it's like you got to make a decision like are you going to put them in a home or you going to take care of your house I mean it's it's something that needs to be talked about I guess a lot of people.
I scared to have that conversation because they part of it is like people like never expect their family member to be in a situation where something like that happens.
We always feel like our parents are going to have the best life and be healthy and that's something where we're not even going to have that house and I guess in a way that's kind of how I see like you know my parents are still married they still know they got their house they got a rental house they go down the visit they grandkids as much as they can.
And I guess like you seem like like it seems like they're healthy that's like something that's on the back of your mind like not even thinking about like hey like eventually it's going to happen where.
You got to start thinking about those situations and so I just say have a game plan and have a tough conversations.
How do you think you again for saying that and then how do you all communicate with each other especially now like do you think your communication styles have changed do you think you.
improved your communication styles especially during this this era.
With therapy.
Because I like we would be like then want to hurt each others feelings I guess you can say so we wouldn't we would sugarcolt stuff I guess you can say.
All we just want to say it and so we would be mad at each others because me and her week will end of the game and we we would be we could go a week without talking to each other.
Yeah everything was fine while we were I like him and all this other stuff it seemed like the switch flipped the day we said like we're dating and it was like two balls like bump in hands for like a year a straight year.
And the only way will come back and start talking as if somebody had passed away like that would be I'd be like I'm done with him.
I started having him whatever and then I think one of your family members died almost like.
No it was before the after like it was before that before your grandmother had died.
But somebody else had passed away and I was like he told me I was like oh dang like you want me to come with you to the funeral something like that.
But yeah like that that was the beginning it's I mean it's slowly progressed but I'm laughing because in there like that's our main goal in therapy is like communication.
And so whenever I don't want to say something now right it's like communication communication.
And so I'm like oh I don't want to say but it could just I mean sometimes it could just be something real innocuous like I don't want to you know talk about it.
But I mean it's nothing like bothering him or anything like that but that has been like a for real goal. I know for me I definitely try to communicate with him by like text messages too especially like when it has stuff to do with dad.
I'm also very perceptive too.
So now I know like I don't mind that listening to music in the show we like listening to music in the show but also know that it annoys bread too.
So now so if I was helping dad with a shower on day like the caregiver is not there or something even though let me practice the caregiver just started last week.
We just got approved for those services. We were on the wait list for a year and thankfully it came through.
But before that if you had to have a shower I will go ahead sometime I will go ahead and do a life first thing when that when Brad what's coming home.
And I like that was the last time that that ever happened because he was so pissed so I definitely do on the on the off day like it bread after after Brad has left for work or when Brad and even coming into the house that day for the shower.
So I go ahead and try and take care everything for him and I know dad sometimes he feels like he's you know caught in the room where it's like okay you've had dinner let me go ahead and bring that for you.
So you go ahead and you like take your dish or play and put it in the sink and you know bring your stuff and he's like oh I guess you don't want me out there.
No like we may not want to hear you we went like the walker sometimes is just a little bit bothersome so that's how like that's how I definitely try and go ahead and communicate with him to let or like let him know like hey like X Y Z is going on you might want to go ahead and not come into the house yet.
So do you all have like what's your top like if you could just say like two things that you do for self care every day or even like that's moderate you know weekly to take care of yourself so you stay sane.
Okay so let me first say the self care is not selfish.
So I got back into the gym about over a year and a half ago I ended up losing myself at this in my current position at work and so I were loop hacked on a lot of weight but it definitely helped especially yesterday because yesterday was definitely like a ironic like that song ironic Alanis Moore said you know everything that could happen to definitely do it.
And so I was so focused on I have to go to the gym and I felt better after I went to the gym so I feel like that's my biggest thing is the gym or walking.
Okay Brad what are you.
My sound crazy but I have conversations with myself.
I mean that works.
I mean I just like driving like I just talk to myself just to think that's okay.
Blitz stuff out if I need like to then clear my mind or something.
And so I think it's okay whatever works what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner about this journey.
A struggle with him and with our relationship like like the toilet put on our relationship like it.
It went down in the dump so we had to like build a backup.
Yeah I think I was I was going through for the questions that you had sent us and the thing that I have put down I say is one thing you wish you'd known sooner.
I said how Mike really was because if I knew how he really was I definitely would not have even brought that idea up of oh go ahead and come stay with us because he is so like we have our days of course it's like a roller coaster.
But some days he is just so mean and I'm like you ain't got to be like like you really don't have to be like that.
We're helping to try and take care of you and you just have this nasty attitude like you could have kept it and so that's when I start to like spiral and say like you could have stayed up there with them and blow a lot but that doesn't help the situation because that's not changing that's not going to help so.
Yeah it is what it is.
I think you choose each other every single day because I feel like that's hard and married so how do you through this journey like how do you just say I read it I'm choosing I'm choosing my spouse how do you do it.
I mean I just know that he's the only one that's really in this with me every day he's my sounding board.
He's my protector like when stuff is going to hail he'll go ahead and jump in but he's also busy as well you know with school and stuff so I mean I know we talked about that.
He needs to really like this is the crunch time so I really have to be the one to go ahead and take care of everything right now so if it gets really bad then he knows like oh okay I have to step in but he about to like what you say crash out so I need to go ahead and step in but then when he sees me crashing out and it's like alright give me this you go you go take a shower you go go go walk or something so.
Yeah what about you Brad yeah I think it's just we kind of like to recognize each other better and trying to be more of a support system for each other I think this situation is kind of like open eyes on some stuff like hey like when we get to that age this is what we don't want to do this is what we know don't want to do what we might do in a way it separated us but I still kind of brought us closer together because we had to become more of a team I think.
Yeah for sure and it definitely makes us I know I feel like we get more excited about like times when we get to relax and recharge and just focus on us so that sort of makes it better like oh we we plan this so we're definitely going to be intentional to just be focused on us and not have to you know worry about anybody else.
No that's important and then I guess lastly people are listening they're like I'm a couple what advice would you give to someone who's maybe a couple maybe they're not married maybe they are married what would you suggest to them before like if they haven't even had this conversation like what three things that you say you need this or even one.
Game plan communication and don't be afraid to have a tough conversation lay everything got on the table no matter how I might make the other person feel it needs to be said.
I'm worried and then I'll say I'm single so what advice do you have for me when looking for a mate do you feel like it's possible for someone to deal with our crazy parents or you know do you.
Sorry Brad do you feel like it's possible.
I think it's possible I think it's just something that you have to explain and it's going to take a certain person who.
Right.
Because a lot of people I mean that but like that's too much but I think there are people out there that's willing to accept it.
It's just you just have to explain the situation.
Yeah before you get too deep into it so they can make that decision on their own if they want to do it or not.
And don't feel like you can't date like you can.
Who can I know I'm talking to you.
Oh okay.
You can.
Yeah.
You can.
You have to make your little provisions you know set Jackie up with the caregiver and stuff but you deserve the opportunity to live too like you just don't need to be huddled in the house.
And I would say that for you know somebody else not you but yeah you deserve to go ahead and still be able to experience life.
Yeah I agree we're trying to get there.
We're working on it.
I guess I'll just ask like lastly you said that you all came back together and that it wasn't all bad.
What's the best is that the best thing that's come out of caregiving or is there something else that you feel like this was the best thing that came out of this experience.
Yeah I was like coming back together and like I feel like we all it's like we hit plate toes and we're good and then you know then it's like okay well we got to figure out another way to like up it up our relationship or like make things better for us.
And so I like how we go ahead and like put our brain together and you know trying to figure something out in the end.
We tried and it works and so I mean I say this I wouldn't do it with nobody else.
This is my one and the only like I'll be willing to go ahead and like sit and put my brain together and try and do something with and however you want to fit but yeah.
Yeah we're really angry. I agree. I also think like when we do have like these situations where we get stressed out or there's a lot of stuff like this like trips when we like our vacation.
I feel like a lot of times that makes it even more better like our trips and stuff because we want to better spend more time with each other and have that that us time or quality time with each other.
Well thank you all so much for taking the time to come out. I really appreciate it. I do. I appreciate you all for being vulnerable and sharing and I definitely feel like this would be really helpful for anyone who's going through it, picking each other.
You know y'all in through a lot of career changes and stuff but you know but now you're about to be I'm saying you're about to be a paramedic like that.
That was a lot too and you were balancing like school and and stuff like that and but you still made it work so I think that's amazing.
Well thank you so much. This wraps up. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much for listening to Living Through the Shift Podcast. I really appreciate it.
I want to give a special thanks to my sister Courtney and my brother and law. And you'll have a good one and we'll see you next week.
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